Ill continue with GEV unless someone wants it--I can also do Music again as needed--If I do in next few days Ill do both just incase and you can get rid of which ever you dont need

and oh ya PPPPPAAAAAAATTTTTTSSSSSS

i'll do guard this time

Hrrmm.... then I guess I will do another visual captain.. maybe gev? I could judge effect. I dont kbow what a visual performance or ensemble judge does lol

I missed this and just submitted GEV and GEM--I am sure he could do something with it if your already submitting...

however just for informational purposes--Visual Performance in many ways is the easiest--its how well they do what they do without really taking a lot into consideration of WHAT they are doing or the overall impact of it. In other words--are they in step--do the riffles go up together--is it performed the way that is is supposed to be--are their strange or unexpected gaps etc or does it look "perfect" or do you see lots of mistakes. How well they DID whatever it is there are supposed to do. this is also more field level

visual ensemble is a bit more abstract than that--its how things fit together more or compliment each other. Does that curvy line make sense or not. Does the visual compliment the music, does the percussion and brass visual coordinate with the guard or do they feel written by different people. It will usually take into account some effects portions, but less so how you feel about the overall show/impact like in GE and more does it make sense--a bit more of the WHAT are they doing--but not the impact of what they did as much. Honestly I think ensemble is the hardest of all the categories to fully understand in a way.

this is an interesting read from the 2016 BoA adjudication handbook. I'm not sure how similar it is to DCI, because I can't ever find a DCI adjudication handbook. But this is what I base my VE judging off of. This might help us understand what a VE judge does.

********************************************************************************************************
Section 12: Scoresheet Explanation – Visual Ensemble

12.01
The purpose of evaluation on this sheet is to determine the most technically proficient marching group from the vantage point of the audience. The evaluation is composed of excellence identification, balanced with the judgment of technical demand, and the exposure to that demand on the ensemble, with the consideration of content and construction.

The effectiveness of the Performance is not to be considered. <--- I wanted to point this part out specifically, because it's easy for a VE judge to slip into effect mode.

The vantage point of the ensemble visual Performance judge is such that it would be relatively easy to slip into an effect mode as a judge. We must take great care that we react as an analyst while judging

Bands of America Official Procedures and Adjudication Handbook 34
marching performance ensemble.
We want to judge how well the performers do what it is they are
attempting to do from this vantage point; not how effective what they are doing is to the audience. <--- again they reiterate that you shouldn't judge effect.

12.02
Quality of Technique
deals with the quality of body carriage/control, equipment, usage/technical accuracy,
and the ability of the ensemble to project those elements of the chosen style.

12.03

Accuracy and Definition
considers the ability of a group to maintain overall clarity and accuracy while
changing or maintaining primary, secondary, tertiary, etc. focal points. Student to student form relations should be evaluated, as well as the timing and continuity of the entire visual presentation.

12.04
Visual Artistry is a discussion and analysis of the breadth an
d depth of the student portrayal of a program, not the effect. This is not a question of quantity of material and presentation, but a question of care,
refinement and details used by the design team on the arrangement of the program.

The performers’ influence rests on the readability of the program and on the performers’ ability to allow all of the written logic and nuances to be presented clearly. This latter comment is a consideration beyond simple readability. Simple readability rests on the clarity of the intent of the author. If a judge recognizes what the writer
meant to say, readability is present. Of course, readability is the beginning. Readability would mean the recognition of forms and the general visual phrasing intent at the beginning and the end of the musical phrases.

The refinement aspect means full awareness of the shape of the forms and the full understanding of what happens inside the musical phrases — these are the nuances.
Visual Performance Ensemble is an evaluation of the relative ability of the group. It is entirely possible that a group may have a greater actual number of errors and score higher than another based on an evaluation of what they did. This allows you more flexibility in grey
- area situations. Instances in which there is a slight aberration of control can be noted, with the cumulative effect of its consistent occurrence being lowering of the mark. On the
other hand, occasional lapses of control in extremely difficult situations (blind sets, no recovery time, etc.) can be negated to negligible significance relative to how well this difficult maneuver was done.

*************************************************************************************************************

From what I gathered by this, a VE judge is supposed to judge the movement of the ensemble and answers these questions.

How clean is the drill?

How well do they carry themselves (e.g angles of horns, posture,) per the vantage point of the audience?

How is the spacing?

How well is the timing?

How demanding is it to move from one form to the next? Are they moving much or is there a lot of park and blow and if so, how defined are the visuals when they aren't marching? e.g kicks, jumps, hand movements, squatting?

How well do they do what they are intended to do?

How readable is the drill and shapes? Is everyone in a line if it's supposed to be a line?

Is the circle dented? Did someone miss the mark?

Is everyone halting together?

How long is there a lapse of control? Do they recover well as an ensemble?

So, to summarize all of this, when I judge VE I judge demand of drill (Difficulty), how well it's done (Achievement of movement from one form to the next), Accuracy of movement (such as hand movements, horn pops, squatting, horn carriage, posture, etc as an ensemble), how well is the accuracy of spacing and timing? Readability of design.. If they aren't making readable shapes or movements, it's difficult to judge them, especially if they aren't really making any forms.. (like constantly scattering and never coming together as an ensemble) or the writing of the drill isn't clear or the drill is not clearly performed well, or it looks dirty as they move from one form to the next.


sorry for so much to read. I like judging VE. I hope that I'm a decent judge and that this info helps...

oh well if you already did it i'll do VP . thanks for the explanations. I might be better at visual performance unless someone else wants .. i could do take a crack at music ensemble too. it depends on what theamazing1 wants

I think I'll sit out on this one. Godspeed.

I'll come back next week if needed.

I think the problem in using BOA is that they combine Visual Performance to include individual and ensemble as opposed to having them out really separately--so its visual performance individual and visual performance ensemble are two categories of visual performance where as DCI has them completely separated so ensemble isnt as much about performance or GE but somewhere in the middle.

There was a public DCI judging manual released years ago but them seemed to have buried it since LOL

Yeah i'm not sure why it's such a mystery. however, I still believe that the way I judge VE is acceptable in the case of our judging for fun. it makes sense to me, at least lol I judge the technical side of the marching ensemble from the vantage point of the audience instead of individually on the field..(High CAM is perfect for this) Also, I judge the readability of forms and movement and the accuracy of timing and spacing and carriage as well as what they are doing and how demanding and clean it is, rather than effect which is much more subjective. It's judging technique and accuracy, the nitty gritty, more than how effective the concept is portrayed. i guess what I'm trying to say is that VE is more concrete where as effect is abstract. You can see an ensemble not moving well together and everyone would agree that there are technical issues, but perhaps everyone wouldn't have the same opinion about the effect of the show. That's the difference of VE and effect in my opinion. Would you agree on that?

Round 3:

1st - The Cadets 1992

2nd - The Cavaliers 1996

3rd - Boston Crusaders 2014

4th - Blue Knights 2012


On to Round 4!


I'll wait to pick a caption. That means, brass is open if anyone wants it.

If people are tired of any of the GEs I'd like to take one

i'll take my guard spot back :-p lol

Lol okay I'll snag brass before someone else.claims it

How about you do GEM, Tyler? I'm sure Gary won't mind.

ya I am good with you grabbing GEM. I was just covering

alright :)

I'll reveal our finalists and the total scores this evening (Monday). I took a nap after work today and ended up sleeping longer than I wanted.

Alrighty ladies and gentlemen, the results are in. I decided to do a top 8 instead of a top 7.

The standings going into finals ...

1st - Santa Clara Vanguard 1999 - 97.800
2nd - Phantom Regiment 2008 - 97.700
3rd - The Cadets 1992 - 96.850
4th - Blue Devils 2006 - 96.300
5th - Carolina Crown 2010 - 95.200
6th - The Cavaliers 1996 - 95.000
7th - Bluecoats 2011 - 93.760
8th - Madison Scouts 1997 - 92.800

******************************************************************
The following are the corps that didn't make the cut, but I want you to know how they placed.

9th - Blue Stars 2015 - 91.300
10th - Crossmen 2016 - 90.150
11th - The Academy 2016 - 89.580
12th - Boston Crusaders 2014 - 89.450
13th - Spirit of Atlanta 2011 - 87.300
14th - Blue Knights 2012 - 86.500
15th - Glassmen 2009 - 85.550

I'll release the full recaps after finals ;)

nice line up and i see what you mean. That madison show is way better than Bluecoats 2011 in my opinion. still not sure what I want to judge for finals, vp or perc.

I think I will flip from gev to gem if that's ok with everybody