Hey All,

I've played this game off and on for the past 2 years. I see why most of the threads say the game is getting stale. And yes I agree that there isn't a way to update the format we have here unless someone takes on a huge project. So here's what I purpose:

1. We create a new generation type thing..... I think the main reason this game is stale is the fact that new members don't have a chance to compete against the big names of this game. BUT, the big names are the ones who still play all the time. So competition isn't fun and new members don't stay and/or returning members don't play as much.

So, keep the same format. and everybody starts over!

2. Somebody creates a new league in every class and the only people that are allowed to join are brand new groups. Everybody has A, B, C groups on here and they all pop up once in a while for some random competition, but it seems like it doesn't last long. If EVERYBODY, (and i think this only works if most of the people on here want to try this) created a new team for each league we may get some more strategy come out of the game. Who rehearses more, who goes for the fundraising and plans for the future, what if everybody on here that has played for years ALL stated over. Still play the old teams, but this is just a brand new everything.

3. The season should start the July 15 week. Could be fun if we focus more on corps that season, marching bands after that, and drumlines and guard type of thing.

Thoughts...?????? Lets at least start the discussion and see who would play.

so a few thoughts--if the majority was in, I would be as well which is saying A LOT since I have a huge history to lose (I would find a way to keep very similar name or something to honor that history)--my concern is enforcement. We all know a few spoilers who would take advantage not to mention a good portion of players who dont even seem to read any forum, so how would we reach them all to inform them? I am also not sure I understand why leagues would need to change unless I misunderstood or misread that part

My thoughts on this:

1 - I do agree that it's hard for new players to compete with the heavyweights, however it is the same with every other game similar to this. You do make a point that competition isn't fun and new members don't stay and/or returning members don't play as much. While starting over may give the game a new fresh start and gives everyone a chance to succeed, it also takes away the hard work that many of the regulars have put in over the past 70 seasons, so this may be a huge deterrent for them to decide on starting over.

Personally, I have not been here for as long as some of the big guys like gcurrier or saxamattone but I have put in a considerable amount of effort building up my "organisation" and working my way up the FMA ladder since my return in Season 62. That being said, I am willing to sacrifice the work I've put in so that others can be given a chance to shine and enjoy this game to preserve the site's legacy.

2 - I agree with gcurrier that the league system is fine, although I do have some suggestions as to making leagues much more prominent in FMA like maybe league rankings (take a look at the F1 scoring system for some inspiration), increased roles and responsibilities in Board of Directors or even outside of it, a voting system to elect a Founder if league events aren't up within the pre-season or Founder hasn't logged in for awhile(to eliminate the problem of inactive Founders) etc.

3 - The way FMA works is that all the different types of marching arts can compete at once and that each season is 6 weeks long. I think this system is fine the way it is, although there has been talk about season length being too long (?)

I think the division system functions as it should to kinda take away from it being too difficult. I was able to enjoy a lot of success in the lower division, I mean I swept D2 in my 5th full season. Regardless of if we "reset," the people who rehearse better are gonna win. It didn't take me too long in relative terms to be able to be competitive in Division 1, but even before then, I had a good time competing in D2, even if it wasn't for the top of the whole game

Alex would have to do a wholesale reset of the site to make this fair, but I'd probably play if the site reset.

I was thinking that as well Chris, maybe just ask if he can completely reset the game thoughwe would obviously want pretty strong agreement to do that

Uhh WHAT? What about all the work and time people put into it to get to where they're at? Especially you, Gary... I get the whole trying to make it more interesting but is it really worth bringing down everybody back to square 1?

Well this is a very touchy topic, especially for those people who worked on this game for years. However, we also need to think about the long term benefits resetting this game has, and whether its worth the risk. We might lose some regulars but we could gain more in the long run. This thread needs more input from the heavyweights.

I'm not necessarily a heavyweight, but think that it only would matter for a few seasons. Once people start getting to the higher levels again we're right back to square one. The game as is, with director levels, influence, and staff that can be upgraded, will always be biased towards people who have been playing longer. A reset will only be advantageous for the people right now who are at lower levels, and the problem will come back relatively quickly. To make this a more even playing field, wholesale changes to the game are needed.

From a low to mid range player, personally I really would not like a complete reset with no other changes. I'm just now getting in higher ranks and it would be annoying to lose all of it.

I won't deny losing all you've worked on which has now literally been YEARS of my life isn't ideal, but I do think something needsto be done even if that something is drastic. Though I agree there are still a lot of issues with it as others have stated. We just haven't come up with a better answer as of yet. I'm not fully saying I support the idea, but I support the discussion and again if the majority agreed, which doesn't yet seem to be the case, I would be willing for the best of the game.

I don't believe MrBroek007 actually stated that we should reset the game and lose all of our data. What I believe he meant is that everyone should start a new account and compete in division 3 again. Of course, even though all of us might start a new account next season, as time goes on, there will still be players who have played longer than those who just start out.

Quite frankly, I don't want to lose my data. I don't believe there is a problem with the competition, nor do I believe that because there are players who have played longer and are "heavyweights", new players are leaving the game. New players still have a chance to compete against each other in division 3. Regardless of fantasy or reality, no group starts at the top. Every group has to work their way up the competition ladder, and to catch up, it takes work and dedication. If you aren't willing to dedicate yourself each season - clicking your rehearsal buttons every 6 hours, fundraising, creating events, and developing rehearsal strategies that work for you - you aren't willing to play the game just as everyone who sits at the top of division 1 has for several seasons. Thus, I do not agree that the main reason the game is "stale" is because new members don't have a chance to compete. They DO have a chance to compete, just not in division 1 because nobody is division 1 when they first start. The veterans of the game earned their spot.

Nevetheless, I don't have a problem with creating a new account and starting over in division 3 and racing to the top, but are we going to have this discussion 10 seasons from now when players have grown faster than others have and new members are just beginning? Will everyone be willing to start over? Will everyone even read this message?

To continue, I don't understand the league proposal. Are you suggesting that we eliminate FAME and CLASS and the other leagues that have worked to keep the game interesting for several seasons? Creating new leagues and eliminating the older ones would be completely out of the question.

In my opinion, what makes the competition stale is the lack of people communicating - not much going on in the forums, not much happening in the newly formed discord chatroom, not much on Facebook, and not having real-time chat in the game. Furthermore, it's fair to mention that there isn't much to the game. There is only so much clicking, fundraising, and event creating one can do before the game becomes stale. That's why I have tried to come up with ideas to keep people interested in the site, such as the judging game that many have found interesting and enjoy to do. We used to have a finals or preseason "parade" where groups could perform and compete. That's why we have Masters of FMA - to keep the competition and game fun and interesting, instead of just "click click click" every 6 hours. To me, it's not a matter of starting over. We've simply exhausted ideas, and we need more people to contribute to the forum and chat. There always will be heavy weights and new members, and there always will be people coming and going for various reasons. Although it would be interesting to see how the heavyweights stack up against the new members in division 3, staring over will not change the competition for long term.

I agree with Aaron on the idea of lack of a community. During my first run in FMA, the league forums were active, and it was cool to communicate with the people in my league and the other people in the circuit as time progressed. It's very telling to me that the CLASS forum even is barely active except during the end game of the season, when before it was THE place to talk about the game and how the season was going. And I mean I don't wanna like chastise people because if you don't enjoy that part of the game nobody's gonna like force you to, but I miss the days when leagues were places for people to actually have discussion, and I almost felt a sense of camaraderie with my leagues, rather than most of the forums basically being used to say that league events are up at the beginning of the season. The days where FAME vs. CLASS was a big thing, and we did the Challenge for the PEARL, those were my favorite times to be on this website. And idk what happened for that to change when I was gone, but the community feels like a shell of its former self right now.

The obvious answer is lack of participation, when I started it was over 800 and now it's at 337 across 4 circuits and 3 divisions, and with most people having 4 groups, the overall people playing the game is more than likely less than 100, let alone the people who are actively rehearsing their groups. But why did people stop coming to the site in the first place, and how do we reverse this trend?

I don't think anyone can really say for sure why people stopped participating, but as I stated above, I definitely do not believe that the reason people stopped participating is that new members can't compete with the veteran players. Have you seen how weak division 3 has been lately? Only a hand full are breaking 60 and even fewer are breaking 70 +. They can't say, the reason there is a lack of participants is that they aren't able to compete. Many of these players aren't even trying to compete. Division 2 has been weak, also. If you give up in your first few seasons, you aren't trying to play the game. If you expect division 1 and high scores right away, you don't understand how the game works. Everyone starts at the bottom (period). We shouldn't have to reset the game or create new accounts because of new players feeling inferior when they begin their FMA journey - to me, that's a bit ridiculous. If the solution to recruit new players is to start over, we need an entirely new game where it would actually be fair for everyone to start at the same time. Nevertheless, even if a new game was created, in later seasons, new players still would start later than the older ones.

And for the record, this instance is not the first time that someone has mentioned leveling the playing field. Heck, I might have even mentioned it when I first began on FMA. I get that everyone wants to start strong. It sucks having low starting scores when you're new. However, I pushed harder to rise to the top instead of giving up - many others also have had patience and have striven to become more competitive. For as long as I've been a member on this site, the FMA population always has fluctuated. I don't think the reason for the fluctuation is that new members can't compete with the powerhouses. Maybe a few feel that way but definitely not all. There are probably several reasons why people aren't playing. Perhaps one reason is that the game is boring to some people. They come here believing the game is something else - perhaps thinking you actually can write drill and create shows. Maybe, curiosity brings in new members, but the new members decide not to stay. I've recruited players who have just disappeared one season - POOF. Remember the flood of new players after someone mentioned FMA on a Facebook group page for band kids (or was it twitter)? Many of the inactive players are from that group page, and some have stayed and still compete. Maybe we could start actively recruiting again from other websites. Moreover, some don't have the time to dedicate to clicking every 6 hours. The game itself can naturally become stale. After 70 seasons, where do you go from here? Seasons run together. The game needs a spark. I don't believe erasing data is going to bring back the spark that it needs. It's time for FMA pt 3 :-)

As someone who is struggling to even get in the top 5 in d1...i disagree lol. The site shouldnt reset. Part of the fun is working hard for the goal, dethroning the big dogs. Look at nashville sound for example. Comepletely irrelevant in terms of medaling for YEARS, but the patience and determination brought them a world title last season. That was exciting. Ive been competitive here since i first joined, and i will admit its frustrating at times when you just cant get past a certain barrier, and ive even raged a few times lol. There was one season my corps led against Atlantic Clarinet Choir the whole time, only to get upset at the league championship by a tenth of a point. That was hard to swallow lol. But at the end of the day, it just made me want to play even more and comeback. Its rewarding for younger players when they work so hard and eventually acheive greatness. Regardless of whether i ever win a D1 gold medal, my corps' name will be in the history books for this site, because i never gave up just because the other corps are bigger than mine is. I think the problem, like aaron said, is the forums and lack of content. There is only so much you can do when pushing buttons. We need to come up with some cool tournament or something, something fresh. Maybe we can do like a tour of champions type thing, where all the players host their events the way they normally do, but this time they are all connected. There can be a point system, like there is for the world cup. We could do like a group stage elimination type thing. I dont know, just spitballing here. Im sure you see my point though, if we all work together and come up with a creative idea to spice things up it could work. I tried posting a forum where everyone can share their show concepts, and barely anyone participated. The ones that did im sure enjoyed sharing their ideas

This game isnt immersive enough. And thats not to say its a bad game, its fun. Its OUR job to create the immersion, and we havent been doing much lately

I had thought about a TOC type thing too but haven't really spent much time developing the idea but I bet we can come up with something

Something has to change before someone starts a season with a score of 100 at the first Comp.

Once that happens, this game is doomed unfortunately.

I may be just a newby here but what I know that sometimes deteres me is that I am turned down from so many invitationals. Now since I became a D3 finalist my acceptance rate has risen. But what I think is fun is if we have more LARGER events where as many drum corps as possible are competing. And Im sorry but I am trying to build a history here. I personally am still at a point where I would be tollerant of reseting my personal corps because I havent made my entire history yet and I am not prominent in FMA.

However,

I know of many famous and very historic corps that I enjoy looking back on their history, and it is entertaining to still see them compete. We need to think like the real DCI and WGI and the marching band circuits. Why we compete as young people is because of our love of marching arts and more specifically usually DCI. Therefore, I do agree with the partnership with MicroMarching League, though I had thought most people here are on both anyway. But we also like that history. We adore where like the Cadets and Cavaliers and Madison Scouts have been around for such a long time. I think part of the struggle is viewing the copycat names in this site and looking through the record showing that there has been 5 other Black Knight corps is kind of upsetting because while Im still trying it is difficult to be a unique corps and stand out like real corps.

The point of being here is to build a corps that makes a name for itself and to be recognized. (More similar to the VFW Era Drum corps and DCI Era 1972-1980)

At the very least I have recently learned of DCPI... (www.drumcorpsfantasy.com) Where we could all at least go if this site ever crashes